Yeah, I deleted the other thread. You can still tell me stuff if you want, but I've just been kind of distant from the internet lately. You seem to like talking more about theories and morals so...here, for you
By the way, do you really think Lapis used to be...neutral? I think she was still good, however she was more cowardly and not yet a hero, just more of a civilian that got dragged into everything until it gave her PTSD.
You didn't have to delete it. You could have just left it alone and make a new one.
But yes I do think she was neutral. She definitely wasn't evil, we can both agree on that. But she didn't show signs of being "good" until "The Message" when she warned Steven and the others about Peridot, but even then it was only for Stevens sake.
Besides, Lapis isn't the only formally "neutral" Gem. Ruby and Sapphire were neutral until they fused and joined Rose. Heck, Rose was neutral before she realised what she was doing. I think most Gems were.
I don't think she was really neutral as much as not much was known about her. She was a new character and technically was just defending herself and trying to go home, later feeling bad when she really thought about what happened, based on Alone at Sea. I don't think a neutral gem would also keep trying to shoo them away without a fight. She didn't join the Crystal Gems because she thought they were twisted.
I don't really see "Rose" as being neutral. She didn't even know she was killing anything. If anything she was still just trying to help others, even before she knew.
Just so we have a mutual understanding. What exactly is your definition of "neutral"? You said you "don't think a neutral gem would also keep trying to shoo them away without a fight", Lapis did put up a fight though. Don't you remember the water clones?
Yes, she did. But she didn't use it as a first resort. She kept asking them to leave. It seemed as an act of desparation. She was cracked with everyone constantly targeting her, and now when she finally has an opportunity, people try to take it away.
My definition of neutral is someone who isn't good or evil. I'm not talking about what side he or she is on, I'm talking about the person deep down. Say a civilian who doesn't do anything heroic or villainous. If it really came down to it, the person would do the right thing if it is within his or her ability, like Lapis did in the end. Morally good, but not on any side at first. Sometimes, even good people are caught up in personal stuff. And good people can have regrets, it doesn't mean a person is formally neutral.
I think Peridot was evil. She was originally very proud of what she did, admitting she didn't care much for anything except Steven. She's just a redeemed villain, as she is good now, but she had a big personality change. The only thing that changed about Lapis is she is more brave.
It's really good though the frame rate's kinda jittery. The story revolves around a fourteen year old prince named Callum, his ten year old half brother and heir to the throne Ezran, and Moonshadow Elf assassin Rayla who are on a quest to return the long lost Dragon Prince to his mother and end the impending war between the Elves and humans. It references blood a couple times but aside from this one time in a battle in episode eight with a monster you never see blood or anyone get killed.
She's not perfect, but who is? Yes she can be selfish, wrathful and cowardly at times but that's what I like about her. She has flaws but she learns to be a better person. Also she went through years of trauma so her behaviour also makes her realistic.
Plus she does have good points too (other then her looks, which most haters say is the only reason people like her). She is grateful, goofy, sarcastic (in a good way), humble, laid back and can kick Diamond butt..
Another thing people don't realise is that she's surprisingly open minded about "Off coloured" Gems. Although she hated the Crystal Gems she never made any personal remarks like Jasper and Peridot did. She even called them all "You three" despite one of them being a fusion, like even if she hated Garnet for keeping her trapped, she still respected her components decision to remain fused and be seen as one person (granted from a writing perspective this could have been to avoid spoilers, but if that's the case they could have had her say "You lot" or "You Gems" or something.
I agree with you. None of the characters in the show are perfect anyway. Everyone loves Peridot, but she has made terrible mistakes in the past. Also, while she is good now, Peridot is extremely arrogant.
Lapis has also shown remorse for her actions. There's that one scene in "The New Crystal Gems" people complain about, but her body language and the way she faces away shows she's not happy at all with how she reacted. Lapis even called herself horrible in another episode...she isn't proud of her past mistakes. And you are right, she has done good things. Even when she fused with Jasper; is that really even bad she kept her as her prisoner? She even didn't want to do that again. Pearl was more selfish. Remember when she was tricking Garnet into fusing with her? Garnet isn't a villain or enemy. Garnet did nothing wrong there. But Pearl fused with her out of selfishness. Lapis did it for herself, for what I consider justified reasons, especially since Jasper is pretty bad, and Lapis also did it for Steven "Just let me do this for you!".
Pearl also tried brainwashing Connie to be willing to sacrifice her life for Steven. I understand why, but...that's probably worse than anything Lapis has done, actually. She did almost drown Steven and Connie, but something tells me she didn't have true intention to kill them. Why would she kill Steven especially? She snapped from her trauma because she wanted to go home and they were stopping her. But when she realized what she did, well, she felt horrible about it.
And while she usually avoids the conflicts in fear, it is kind of obvious she has PTSD from all she went through. And even so, she helps when she is needed. She's saved them before.
People also bring up how rude she was to Peridot for a while. That was just her being cynical. She didn't really witness Peridot develop like Steven and the others did. Having trust issues doesn't make someone bad. She didn't want Peridot to bother her. She still helped her in the end, too. She just needed time.
Yeah, I don't think she's bad at all. I consider her a good person (or gem). Like you said, no one is perfect. Even Greg and Steven made mistakes in the show.
Speaking of Peridot. There seems to be a lot of double standard in regards to what characters do. People attack Lapis for nearly drowning Steven and Connie, but tend to forget that the first time Steven met Peridot she literally tried to smash him under a giant robot hand, of course she's the "great and lovable Peridot" so that's perfectly fine. Peridot didn't even know Steven was an enemy when she did that either, she was going to kill him just for being there. (Note: Sorry If I sounded anti-Peridot. I do love Peridot she's my second favourite character in the show)
Then there's the whole Jasper thing. Many people paint her as the innocent victim of Lapis abuse, like they just forgot she's a villain. People do defend Jaspers actions by saying "She's only following orders" be that as it may, it's obvious she was enjoying causing misery to the Crystal Gems and generally being a bad person.
As for Pearl, she's not safe from double standard hatedom eaither. She is probebly the most hated out of the main four characters. There's the reasons you pointed out, but then there's also "Rose's Scabbard". Remember when Steven was jumping on floating platforms to confront Pearl about why she's upset only for her to glare at him, cause him to miss the platform and nearly fall to his death? The amount of people who accused her of wanting him to die, or even trying to kill him to bring back Rose is unbelievable. Yet when Amethyst holds Stevens head underwater for an extended time in "Chille Tid" no one accuses her of trying to drown Steven. And don't get me started on "Three Gems and a Baby". Yes Pearl was going to take Stevens Gem out, but it's not like Garnet and Amethyst tried to stop her from doing it.
And getting back to Lapis and Jasper. I'm starting to feel Aquamarine and Topaz are supposed to be like parodies of what fans think of them. Aquamarine, a character we're supposed to hate, is how the Lapis haters see Lapis, Physically she's a cute blue gem with wings, but is sadistic, has OP powers, is abusive to her partner and has no problem killing innocent humans. Topaz on the other hand is a big yellow masculine looking solider how does bad things but only because she has to. In reality she is realy a big sweet cinnamon roll, like how fans see Jasper as. Also the fact she's a fusion could be based on the now debunked theory of Jasper being a closet fusion, or perhaps Jaspers canon obsession with fusion.
I typed a reply and it didn't post. Wikia has been acting up for me lately.
I agree with you.
And...I don't think...Lapis intended to kill Steven or Connie. Simply because she had the opportunity to shatter Amethyst, but she didn't. And she was willing to talk it out with Steven. She attacked out of feeling threatened. She wanted to go home and kept warning them off. And when she's confronted about this in "The New Crystal Gems", she says "I almost drowned a lot of people" with a pretty upset looking face. She looks upset with herself for it. She is very powerful, and caused a lot of trouble because of that. And in "Alone at Sea", she says she is a horrible person for all she did (she even mentions Greg). She's not sadistic or malicious. She has PTSD and is shown to be a funny, happy person around those she trusts. And she's done heroic things before, too. She's a good person. She can even be very selfless. I can't see any logical reason to think she's anything but good, really. Jasper's the unrepentant villain, not Lapis.
"If every pork chop were perfect, we wouldn't have hot dogs."
And I didn't say Lapis tried to drown Steven and Connie, I was saying she might have. She spent most of her time on Earth in the mirror so she likly didn't know humans need air to breath. But of course haters say she did, like how they say Pearl tried to kill Steven in "Rose's Scabbard". Whilst Peridot, who unambiguously was trying to kill Steven and the others is let off the hook.
Oh, yes I know what you mean. I don't think she intended to kill them though, I was just pointing out what I personally think of the whole situation. Especially since Steven is one of the people we're talking about. Or she snapped, being defensive, and later realized what she almost did. Either way, she hates herself for what she did. I think if she wanted to cause more harm, she would have tried to shatter Amethyst or something.
And I agree about Peridot. People do forget there was a time when she was a villain. Peridot's good now, but before she learned about earth and grew attached to Steven, she was a cold and calculating killer. Which is also why it took Lapis a bit to trust her. It's incredibly biased how people forgave Peridot so easily for that, but are so harsh on Lapis.
You know that whole moral alignment thing that goes Lawful Good to Chaotic Evil?
I'd say Lapis is along the lines of Chaotic Good. She's good, but she has that free spirit and was willing to break the rules for that, if necessary.
Jasper is most likely Lawful Evil. She does everything by the laws, yes, but she clearly gets enjoyment out of hurting innocent people and is generally a bad person. Someone like Topaz would be more of a Lawful Neutral.
I don't really think that. I think she was still...good, but she was too afraid to actually stand up to the villains yet. Still too heavily effected by whatever PTSD. Not much was known about her yet, anyway.
It's not just how I feel with her, either. I think most of the good characters are like that; they were still good just, messed up a bit. I say most because then you have Peridot who had a completely dramatic change in character.
Then again, I probably went to the extent of my thinking abilities since my wisdom teeth were removed so I'm in a weird mood. Perhaps I'll explain better soon.
It's basically some idiot hater ranting about why we should hate Lapis. The worst part is at 05:20 - 06:20 where he talks about "Alone at Sea". He basically says "Oh. It's Lapis' fault Jasper wont get a redemption. Jasper begged Lapis for help, but Lapis cruelly denied her help and sent her flying away."
He takes everything out of context and get's it all wrong. Jasper wasn't asking for help or redemption, she just wanted to be Malachite again, restarting the abusive relationship and be all powerful. Also, he leaves out the part where Jasper was going to shatter Steven, making it look like Lapis used her powers to send Jasper far away from her possible redemption arc purely out of spite. And considering what kind of character Jasper is, it's was likly not just an empty threat. This is the Gem that was going to shatter Amethyst just for being a runt and considering how much she despises Rose, it's safe to assume that if Lapis hadn't of got rid of Jasper, Steven would literally be dead now.
I can't say I really fully agree with either video. SliceOfOtaku's was really all over the place. It seemed like he made up things and took things out of context just to justify his hatred of a fictional character and make Jasper seem good.
About the second video; I agreed with everything except her point of Lapis not being remorseful because she's not really good or bad. She...is remorseful. She's not even proud of her treatment to Jasper, who I personally think deserved it (I mean, I'm all for imprisoning bad criminals.)
"I don't deserve this." (she says regarding Steven and Greg being kind to her with the whole boat thing)
"I'm terrible! I did horrible things! I-I broke your dad's leg. I stole Earth's ocean! Go on! Tell me I'm wrong!"
And her body language when she says "I almost drowned a lot of people."
But really, I agree with you. Especially on the part where she punched Jasper. I could never see that as wrong. If anything what she did was only done after Jasper was trying to shatter Steven. And even before that, Jasper was just trying to get them to fuse again, which Lapis was clearly not okay with. If anything, she saved Steven's life, like you said. Garnet would do the same. Pearl would do the same. So would Amethyst.
By the way, uh, sorry for asking but, is there anything else you use to chat that isn't, personal or anything? You have some interesting theories and such, though I don't want to spam here. Only if you want, of course
I really like your theory about Aquamarine/Topaz representing the fan perspective on Jasper/Lapis. I wonder if that's the case, since it's so...accurate.
I don't have any theories of my own really, though I have a character. He wasn't originally related to Steven Universe since I had him way before I got into the fandom. I just think he works well in the universe.
You're interested? Well...he goes by the name (Update he goes by Brownie now) but is a brown diamond. Originally he was just a guy that could shapeshift into a lynx but couldn't really age, like a vampire, which actually works well as a gem. Since gems can shapeshift and don't age. As a gem though; he was weaker than the other diamonds (brown diamonds are the most common and least valuable, so I've heard) and made an attempt to rebel, as he didn't see it as right to steal resources at the cost of so many lives. He failed, and was blinded and poofed. As a result, he's a blind gem. He usually stays alone, and sometimes turns into a lynx since he likes that form. He can be incredibly grumpy if he finds someone annoying, though is otherwise humble.
I also think his weapon would probably be a staff of a sort. I imagine, however, after he was blinded, he mostly just uses it to guide his walking so he doesn't fall from uneven terrain.
Remember what I said about Aquamarine and Topaz being parodies of the fandoms opinions on Lapis and Jasper? Well I just thought of two more examples.
Jasper is very masculine looking, the only thing feminine about her (other then her pronouns) is her voice. Granted it's deep and raspy but still a woman's voice. Not only is Topaz the most masculine looking Gem we've seen so far, but she has one of the most feminine sounding voices.
Another thing is that some people (i.e. SliceOfOtaku) wrongly blame Lapis for the Jasper not getting a redemption. And with Topaz, it literally is Aquamarine's fault Topaz didn't get hers. Topaz wanted to help Steven and Lars but Aquamarine showed up and stopped her, and Topaz had to carry on with her mission.
That's not to say Jasper and Topaz wont get redemptions, especially Topaz. Like I said before, she's not a bad person, she just does bad things because she has too but realy doesn't want to. And Jasper must have some good in her too....somewhere.
I kinda wish wikia had a private message feature. I'd like to share more with you about Brown Diamond but I don't really want to post about it on a Steven Universe wiki to all sorts of random people, but oh well
Well Brown Diamond, like Pink, loved earth once he learned of sentient creatures on it (he was originally a female gem), but never joined the rebellion since it'd attract too much attention. He decided to be "civil" and try to talk it out with Blue and Yellow but, between the stress of the rebellion and Pink, they ended up punishing him, er, her, for ordering his gems to stop aiding in colonization. This is how she became blind, and from learning on earth, when recovered from poofing, returned as "male." He eventually fled to earth with a few gems loyal to him, naming them the "rogue gems," which is just a group with no laws and is disorganized.
Eventually Yellow and Blue see him on earth and it really sinks in what they did, and they feel bad (since they do care about other diamonds), especially since they never listened to Pink or Brown.
His power is controlling fear in others, kind of like how Blue can make gems emotional.
What do you think, honestly? I've been tweaking him up in spare time so his concept makes more sense.